Comments on: Vanguard crafting http://dragonchasers.com/2009/01/04/vanguard-crafting/ But what will you do when you catch one!? Thu, 24 May 2012 07:54:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Ysharros http://dragonchasers.com/2009/01/04/vanguard-crafting/#comment-115882 Ysharros Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:15:06 +0000 http://dragonchasers.com/?p=1516#comment-115882 There's harvesting -- so skinning, mining, quarrying, tree-cutting... I can't remember what else or what they may have added since. Now while technically those aren't level-limited, the *nodes* are in higher and higher areas, as is the case with WoW, EQ2 and so on -- heck, even SWG technically, where the nastier planets tended to get slightly better spawns (and still do, e.g. Dathomir). You don't have to be level X to have a skill of Y, unlike WoW, but you do have to be able to survive in these places to get your good -- or have enough money to buy the raws off other players. Work orders produce nothing that players can use -- it's a purely player-->NPC system. To make real items you have to use real harvested materials and yes, some of those did used to drop off mobs, and I think the plan was to have some of the really high-end stuff drop off raid mobs. Basically Vanguard was going to have a mostly-independent, mostly-player based crafting/economy system, but lost out to the Almighty Loot not long before release. Crafted items were chopped down in power, loot was brought up, and then for a while they even made all the crafted stuff BoE while the looted stuff wasn't. I can still hear my rants from those days. ;) There’s harvesting — so skinning, mining, quarrying, tree-cutting… I can’t remember what else or what they may have added since. Now while technically those aren’t level-limited, the *nodes* are in higher and higher areas, as is the case with WoW, EQ2 and so on — heck, even SWG technically, where the nastier planets tended to get slightly better spawns (and still do, e.g. Dathomir). You don’t have to be level X to have a skill of Y, unlike WoW, but you do have to be able to survive in these places to get your good — or have enough money to buy the raws off other players.

Work orders produce nothing that players can use — it’s a purely player–>NPC system. To make real items you have to use real harvested materials and yes, some of those did used to drop off mobs, and I think the plan was to have some of the really high-end stuff drop off raid mobs.

Basically Vanguard was going to have a mostly-independent, mostly-player based crafting/economy system, but lost out to the Almighty Loot not long before release. Crafted items were chopped down in power, loot was brought up, and then for a while they even made all the crafted stuff BoE while the looted stuff wasn’t. I can still hear my rants from those days. ;)

]]> By: Pete http://dragonchasers.com/2009/01/04/vanguard-crafting/#comment-115864 Pete Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:19:19 +0000 http://dragonchasers.com/?p=1516#comment-115864 Hopefully someone more worldly will answer, but from what I've seen, you can do the Work Orders without ever leaving town. I picked Artificer and I have to harvest stone and wood out "in the wilds". Early levels are pretty easy to get to, but I'd assume later on you have to head into more dangerous terrain to harvest. But in theory it seems like you could 'level up' via work orders and then buy the raw materials when you actually wanted to make something to keep? I dunno how realistic that is, though... Hopefully someone more worldly will answer, but from what I’ve seen, you can do the Work Orders without ever leaving town. I picked Artificer and I have to harvest stone and wood out “in the wilds”. Early levels are pretty easy to get to, but I’d assume later on you have to head into more dangerous terrain to harvest.

But in theory it seems like you could ‘level up’ via work orders and then buy the raw materials when you actually wanted to make something to keep? I dunno how realistic that is, though…

]]> By: Werit http://dragonchasers.com/2009/01/04/vanguard-crafting/#comment-115859 Werit Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:48:45 +0000 http://dragonchasers.com/?p=1516#comment-115859 So does crafting require drops from monsters, or can you really just be a crafter (ala SWG)? So does crafting require drops from monsters, or can you really just be a crafter (ala SWG)?

]]> By: Pete http://dragonchasers.com/2009/01/04/vanguard-crafting/#comment-115852 Pete Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:54:07 +0000 http://dragonchasers.com/?p=1516#comment-115852 @Ysharros "but it’s a *fascinating* system to begin with that gets very, very old in the long run." I was afraid that might be the case. I remember the original system in EQ2 was pretty great too, until you had to do it thousands of times in the course of your career. :) @Werit I honestly haven't made anything "for me" yet (!) so dunno what my options are with finished goods; its all been quest and work-order stuff so far. I'm on the Isle of Dawn right now, which seems to be an extended tutorial area (and where trial accounts play). People are always giving away dropped loot to each other (in itself a pleasant surprise) and the only thing I've seen crafted being sold via chat is bags. Honestly I haven't found a bank or any kind of auction house yet. But hopefully Ysh answered some of your questions! @Ysharros “but it’s a *fascinating* system to begin with that gets very, very old in the long run.” I was afraid that might be the case. I remember the original system in EQ2 was pretty great too, until you had to do it thousands of times in the course of your career. :)

@Werit I honestly haven’t made anything “for me” yet (!) so dunno what my options are with finished goods; its all been quest and work-order stuff so far. I’m on the Isle of Dawn right now, which seems to be an extended tutorial area (and where trial accounts play). People are always giving away dropped loot to each other (in itself a pleasant surprise) and the only thing I’ve seen crafted being sold via chat is bags.

Honestly I haven’t found a bank or any kind of auction house yet. But hopefully Ysh answered some of your questions!

]]> By: Ysharros http://dragonchasers.com/2009/01/04/vanguard-crafting/#comment-115849 Ysharros Sun, 04 Jan 2009 13:07:59 +0000 http://dragonchasers.com/?p=1516#comment-115849 Work items were supposed to make a difference to the major cities, but I can't remember if they do in practice -- what *does* happen with work orders (or did, it's been a year since I played) is that you get rep with the faction giving the work orders. Since there used to be 3 sets of continental recipes (Thestran, Qualian, Kojani) *and* IIRC faction-based recipes within the three continents, you'd have to do the rounds if you wanted access to all the possible recipes. Learning how to make a Thestran house, for instance (which is what you have to build on Thestra) can't be learned on any other continent, so you need to build faction with them through work orders. All of which may be quite quite different now. I don't want to sound like the parade-pisser, but it's a *fascinating* system to begin with that gets very, very old in the long run. That said I believe they've made some changes (especially to how certain non-trained recipes are obtained, thank god, because that used to be a crappy luck-based lottery) for the better. My main beef with Vanguard's crafting is that it went from a central system to a "not quite as good as most loot" system in the last few weeks of development. I have a few other issues with Silius, who used to be crafting lead and is now lead designer, I think. But that's all in the past. ;) The crafting won't drive you nuts for quite some time, especially if you don't do it as full-on as I did -- I was primarily a crafter. I also got really mad at grinding work orders for recipes that never dropped and that weren't quite as "optional" as the crafting team claims. (When all the players think Item A is a must-have, it's not really optional to have that recipe.) Only my bard ever got anywhere near 50 (and that was on the test server with double xp ;)) in adventuring, though I had crafters of every stripe. Some crafts will need you to level or have very helpful friends (or used to require -- the housing quests for higher tier housing bits were in *tough* areas). So uh, yeah. I knew a bit about VG, as did Genda since he used to run VanguardCrafters (whose forums may still be around?). If you need to know anything, just holler! Work items were supposed to make a difference to the major cities, but I can’t remember if they do in practice — what *does* happen with work orders (or did, it’s been a year since I played) is that you get rep with the faction giving the work orders. Since there used to be 3 sets of continental recipes (Thestran, Qualian, Kojani) *and* IIRC faction-based recipes within the three continents, you’d have to do the rounds if you wanted access to all the possible recipes. Learning how to make a Thestran house, for instance (which is what you have to build on Thestra) can’t be learned on any other continent, so you need to build faction with them through work orders.

All of which may be quite quite different now.

I don’t want to sound like the parade-pisser, but it’s a *fascinating* system to begin with that gets very, very old in the long run. That said I believe they’ve made some changes (especially to how certain non-trained recipes are obtained, thank god, because that used to be a crappy luck-based lottery) for the better.

My main beef with Vanguard’s crafting is that it went from a central system to a “not quite as good as most loot” system in the last few weeks of development. I have a few other issues with Silius, who used to be crafting lead and is now lead designer, I think. But that’s all in the past. ;)

The crafting won’t drive you nuts for quite some time, especially if you don’t do it as full-on as I did — I was primarily a crafter. I also got really mad at grinding work orders for recipes that never dropped and that weren’t quite as “optional” as the crafting team claims. (When all the players think Item A is a must-have, it’s not really optional to have that recipe.) Only my bard ever got anywhere near 50 (and that was on the test server with double xp ;) ) in adventuring, though I had crafters of every stripe. Some crafts will need you to level or have very helpful friends (or used to require — the housing quests for higher tier housing bits were in *tough* areas).

So uh, yeah. I knew a bit about VG, as did Genda since he used to run VanguardCrafters (whose forums may still be around?). If you need to know anything, just holler!

]]> By: Werit http://dragonchasers.com/2009/01/04/vanguard-crafting/#comment-115847 Werit Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:21:52 +0000 http://dragonchasers.com/?p=1516#comment-115847 Work orders do seem like a nice idea. Does it actually have an effect on the city you craft them for? Are you able to sell crafted goods, or is vendoring more likely? Work orders do seem like a nice idea. Does it actually have an effect on the city you craft them for? Are you able to sell crafted goods, or is vendoring more likely?

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